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Mystic Quest Rebalanced
11-01-2016, 05:47 PM (This post was last modified: 11-01-2016 05:48 PM by Fennor.)
Post: #1
Mystic Quest Rebalanced
Here are the first two videos of a MQ hack I am currently working on.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/8KwLeqUumHc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/cm4S4e8go8Y" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Purpose of this hack is not to create a hardcore challenge, but to make doing the right decisions just a little bit more important, so that you can't just press A all the time.

Things that have been changed so far.

-Amount of potions you can carry are limited to 10 (Sadly I don't know how to do that without also limiting bombs/arrows to 10, so I changed it in a way that whenever you have 10 potions/arrows, you can still get a full chest of items. For example cure chests give you 5 cure potions, arrow chests 15 arrows, so you can have 10 + 5 = 15 cure potions and 10 + 15 = 25 arrows)
-Changed treasure locations and items in found in the chests.
-You no longer gain more magic/mana after leveling up to avoid spell spam
-Rebalanced player stats you gain after leveling up. You now gain less attack power compared to magic power, so that black magic can still keep up in the late game without being OP in the beginning of the game.
-Silence works somehow, graphics glitch out sometimes though.
-Heal spell can be cast on both players, so that you have a reason to cast it over life spell in battle
-Weapons have been rebalanced. Axe2 to now provides defense, Axe3 defense and magic, Sword2 speed, Sword3 speed and defense, claw2 magic, claw3 speed and magic. Swords deal more damage than axes now, so that you have a reason to use them over axes (other than for the speed), but in return more enemies are weak to axes now. Some enemies are now also weak to claws. (claws and ninja stars/arrows share an element)
-Black magic spells now scale with 9 damage per magic instead of 3. Also to make them still useful later in the game.
-Enemies have been rebalanced. They differ much more in HP, attack power, defense, speed and magic from eachother, so that you have more of a strategic choice on which enemy to attack.
-Enemies now have more weaknesses and resistances
-Battlefields provide more exp. and only have 5 instead of 10 battles
-Enemy groups have more different enemies, so that there is a strtegic choice on who to attack. Most groups have at least two different monsters, some even three.
-Enemy groups on the map have been repositioned. Level Forest now has also the tree monster to provide more diversity.
-Player and party member stats have been changed. The main character is an allrounder, Kaeli also decent at most stats and good at magic, Tristram has very high amounts of speed, high attack power, but low defense, health and magic. Phoebe has very strong magic, high speed, but low defense, attack power and health, Reuben has very strong Defense, strong health, decent attack power, but low speed and very low magic.
-Phoebe can no longer cast Aero when set on auto fight. In general she wastes less magic and is more likely to attack normally.
-Changed party members starting equip
-Party members have more spells to give the player more tools in battle

For me the most important changes are those to the amount of magic you have and the limit to potions. In the original game you are good to go as soon as you have enough seeds. At level 41 with 99 seeds, you can basically cast 4000 cure spells before being out of white magic. You don't have to manage your resources, you can just cast one spell after another and take a seed whenever you are out of magic. 1 seed is also at least 100 times more useful than one cure potion, by reducing the amount of magic you have available, seeds get less useful compared to cure potions. (They are still powerful, but not as OP as they are in the original game)
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11-01-2016, 10:16 PM
Post: #2
RE: Mystic Quest Rebalanced
Great to see another MQ project! Grin Feel free to make your project topic on the main gaming forum as well.

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11-02-2016, 07:47 AM
Post: #3
RE: Mystic Quest Rebalanced
I'm always in for a new MQ mod, but I'm kind of wary of your limitations to usable items/weapons.
You can't rely on magic, especially early on because you don't have many seeds or any at all and you can't rely on brute force because your support guys have a very limited amount of consumable weapons. It may not be that bad for Tristan because he doesn't accompany you for very long, but Phoebe is a different case. It sounds like she'll be pretty screwed in dungeons like the ice pyramid.

I'm also not sure about the change to the stats after level up. I'm afraid it could cripple physical damage too much and favor spells too hard. It's not like every spell has to be useful at every given moment. There's a reason why you get the ultimate magic late in the game ;)

What I do like is that you get some variety implented with different weapons. Let's see how an increased defense impacts the encounters, it has to be just the right value otherwise it would be either useless because it doesn't really change anything or it may be too much and the enemies don't scratch your armor at all anymore.

I guess I'll wait until there's a beta or something playable to see for myself :cool:
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11-02-2016, 01:28 PM (This post was last modified: 11-02-2016 01:29 PM by Fennor.)
Post: #4
RE: Mystic Quest Rebalanced
(11-02-2016 07:47 AM)Lotex Wrote:  I'm always in for a new MQ mod, but I'm kind of wary of your limitations to usable items/weapons.
You can't rely on magic, especially early on because you don't have many seeds or any at all and you can't rely on brute force because your support guys have a very limited amount of consumable weapons.

I wish I could just have seperate limits for potions and weapons. The current solution is not a very clean one, but in my playthrough it at least was enough for Tristram not to get out of ammo, especially since every chest contained 15 instead of 10 Ninja Stars.

I can explain my philosophy behind the changes:

There are three things that decide whether you will succeed or not.
-Strategy
-Grinding
-Luck
In the original version of MQ your strategic options are very limit and the ones you can make don't matter that much. That means success is more down to grinding or luck. (well, it is not like you have to grind, but that's just becuase the game is easy in general. If you just make monsters stronger so that is is harder, you would have to grind, because it matters more than strategy) I don't think that grinding is bad, it is part of any RPG. But I think grinding shouldn't give you too much of an advantage, and grinding seeds give you an enormous advantage.
If I balance the game in a way that dungeons are still doable when the character has 0 seeds at the beginning of a dungeon, it will be laughably easy when you have 99 seeds. If I balance it for 99 seeds, it will be impossible with 0 seeds. If I balance it for 30-50 seeds, it probably will still be impossible with 0 seeds and easy with 99 seeds. So suceeding will only be down to how much seeds you have, and only to a very small amount about strategy. If you can only have 10 seeds, I can balance them around having 5 seeds. It will be hard with 0 seeds but doable, and it will be easier with 10 seeds but not too boring.

I did not create any chapter2/Phoebe content yet, so I don't know how things will feel with her as a party member yet. There are three things that may lower your concerns.
- I made seeds occur more frequently in chests (One chest can contain 3 seeds, other potion chest contain 5 since they are not as powerful). First of all, having them appear in dungeons won't make grinding them as important and I can balance Phoebe's magic that way. Ice Pyramide is a huge dungeon with a lot of chests, I could put seeds into many chests so that you don't have to save too much magic with Phoebe. It also makes going for chests more rewarding, in the original game potions are not really worth the effort.
- Pheobe still has more magic than other characters. Currently Reuben has 2 white, 2 black and 0 wizard magic, Tristram has 2 - 3 - 1, Benjamin has 3 - 3 - 1, Kaelie has 5 - 2 - 1, Phoebe has 3 - 4 - 2. I tried to make them fit their classes, Keali is some sort of Druid with a lot of healing capabilities, while Phoebe has more black and wizard magic. Overall she can cast more spells than any other character, if I think it is not enough I can still change that.
-I will remove a few monsters from areas with very high amounts of monsters. Some areas feel a little bit clustered with monsters. I don't want the player to get bored, having fewer encounters will also help Phoebe getting through to the end of one area.

(11-02-2016 07:47 AM)Lotex Wrote:  I'm also not sure about the change to the stats after level up. I'm afraid it could cripple physical damage too much and favor spells too hard. It's not like every spell has to be useful at every given moment. There's a reason why you get the ultimate magic late in the game ;)

In the original game I feel like most of the time only the new spell is useful. I want the player to still have a choice later on. In the end game Aero is not that much worse (if at all?) than fire on an enemy that is weak to fire. Physical damage is even higher, the only downside is the chance to miss. Currently black magic spells in my version deal about 2 times the damage of physical attacks, just like Fire in the original game is at least 2 time stronger than physical attacks in the beginning, so it is not necessarily stronger than in the original game, it just keeps its strength. Remember that your magic is supposed to be limited, so of course it is stronger than your physical attacks which are not limited, except for bombs which are stronger, too. Some enemies will have very high amounts of defense, like turtles, others will have very high amounts of magic defense and also magic resistances like wizards in the ice pyramide, some will also be weak to axes or claws, so there will still be several occasions where physical attacks are preferable. Currently wizard magic is really very strong, but no character currently has more than 1 wizard magic expect for Phoebe, I think magic that can onehit certain enemy groups is fair if you can only do it once per seed.

Maybe it feels a little bit demotivating that your damage numbers don't rise as much as they do in the original game. (In the end game you will only do about 300-400 damage with normal attacks) I could have doubled physical damage you gain by leveling up and also double the amount of magic to keep it balanced. But I wanted defense of monsters to still be relevant in the endgame, enemies only have one byte for defense though. So the best defense an enemy can have is 255. That is not enough for me when you deal over 800 damage. If someone knows how I can change defense in a way so that it reduces damage by 2 per defense, I could change it.

(11-02-2016 07:47 AM)Lotex Wrote:  What I do like is that you get some variety implented with different weapons. Let's see how an increased defense impacts the encounters, it has to be just the right value otherwise it would be either useless because it doesn't really change anything or it may be too much and the enemies don't scratch your armor at all anymore.

Sadly I don't have control over how much defense/magic/speed you gain from weapons. It is a set amount of 5, which I think is enough for speed and also useful for magic. 5 defense is probably not very noticable, I would increase it if I could. Claws already give 5 magic in the original game, and swords give you 5 speed, so I just added the 5 defense to axes to give them something, it is better than nothing.

Thanks for all your feedback!

(11-01-2016 10:16 PM)JCE3000GT Wrote:  Great to see another MQ project! Big Grin Feel free to make your project topic on the main gaming forum as well.

Thanks, I'll do that. If you want you can also just move this thread. (If that's possible?)
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11-05-2016, 12:48 AM (This post was last modified: 11-05-2016 12:49 AM by Lotex.)
Post: #5
RE: Mystic Quest Rebalanced
I see where you're coming from and if you're confident that you can handle all this stuff I salute you and I'm very curious about how it turns out in the end. I really love Mystic Quest Legend and I'd really love to see a high quality remaster that stays true to the original with some tweaks here and there.
I'm just not very confident about most changes that people make in their hacks, but maybe I'll be positively surprised. I'd definitely love to take a look at your progress and I'm always available if you need a tester.

I always compare such things to other things like programming. Back in school we had this as a subject and it often was very tedious to continue someone else's work because they had a completely different style of coding, even if it was just something cosmetical. That's how I imagine trying to edit such a system.
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